tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3952108899218764633.post1324169744135157026..comments2024-02-28T22:03:19.609+00:00Comments on A Scottish Liberal: So, Nick Clegg thinks I'm an extremist...Andrewhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02027368242570244912noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3952108899218764633.post-50900825803942296242012-01-13T22:39:59.029+00:002012-01-13T22:39:59.029+00:00"What has Nick Clegg as party leader done sin..."What has Nick Clegg as party leader done since becoming deputy pm to promote the idea of a federalist system for the UK?" Nothing. We keep making this hollow claim that we're a "federal party", but that's just based on what the framers of the constituion wrote in 1988. Those people have moved on while the party hasn't, and the "federal" position hasn't been reflected in policy.<br /><br />If it was a crime to be a federalist, there wouldn't be much evidence with which to convict Nick Clegg. I don't think it's ever been a real priority; actions speak louder than words. In Scotland we've never taken devolution forward when we had the opportunity, and the Lib Dems have never put forward anything like a federal policy for the rest of the UK. <br /><br />But if the party can reclaim its historic principles and breath some life into it, then perhaps the Lib Dems can begin to rebuild rather than be pushed further to the margins of Scottish politics.Andrewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02027368242570244912noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3952108899218764633.post-74356508276572100442012-01-09T14:35:57.774+00:002012-01-09T14:35:57.774+00:00The Liberal Democrats want a federal UK am i right...The Liberal Democrats want a federal UK am i right? But what has Nick Clegg as party leader done since becoming deputy pm to promote the idea ofa federalist system for the UK?<br /><br />It seems to me that federalism is not really a priority for the Libdems and is unlikely to be implemented even if it was a priority. I mean, the Libdems couldn't even get the measly av change through for the same reasons: minimal public demand and intrasigence from the two big parties, Labour and Tory - who want to preserve the status quo.Milnenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3952108899218764633.post-69217788883711187332012-01-08T17:10:26.784+00:002012-01-08T17:10:26.784+00:00I think you could be right Dubbieside. Many very ...I think you could be right Dubbieside. Many very good Scottish Lib Dem MSPs, like Margaret Smith and Ross Finnie lost their seats largely because of Lib Dem identification with Clegg, the Tories or both. There is absolutely nothing to say that this won't be repeated in 2015. However, as a Lib Dem I have to try to be optimistic and hope that in the next three years the Scottish party at least can be regenerated and revitalised. <br /><br />If the GE was held tomorrow I would fully expect Moore to lose his seat - as for Danny, well, he might struggle to be reselected as the boundary changes mean he could be competing for the candidacy of the new constituency with a certain Mr Kennedy. Still, I'm sure he can be found somewhere else to stand (maybe not even in Scotland?) should that happen.<br /><br />As to whether Clegg would accept a peerage - well, I don't know him personally but I'd hope not. It would be hypocritical and entirely inconsistent with his professed passion for Lords reform. Then again, I thought John Prescott would politely refuse the invitation, but if it was too tempting even for him...Andrewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02027368242570244912noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3952108899218764633.post-50068866252307722342012-01-08T17:02:29.703+00:002012-01-08T17:02:29.703+00:00Andrew
You really think he would not accept a pee...Andrew<br /><br />You really think he would not accept a peerage!<br /><br />Really.Dubbiesidehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14351210091827242674noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3952108899218764633.post-12894171290245087632012-01-08T17:01:05.412+00:002012-01-08T17:01:05.412+00:00Andrew
You have had examples in May 2011.
The Li...Andrew<br /><br />You have had examples in May 2011.<br /><br />The Lib Dem for North East Fife Iain Smith was a well thought of hard working guy. That did not stop the tidal wave of disgust that Cleggs betrayal brought down on the Lib Dems washing him away.<br /><br />While 2015 is a long way away there is nothing that the LibDems are doing that will help them recover their position in Scotland any time soon, just the opposite in fact, torys little helpers do not win votes in Scotland.<br /><br />Prediction for 2015 or earlier if Cameron thinks he can discard the Libs and win a majority, Moore and Alexander to loose their deposits.Dubbiesidehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14351210091827242674noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3952108899218764633.post-92044803171895159042012-01-08T16:00:44.197+00:002012-01-08T16:00:44.197+00:00Dubbieside - if Clegg accepts a seat in the Lords ...Dubbieside - if Clegg accepts a seat in the Lords then it would be rank hypocrisy given his championing of an elected HoL. <br /><br />I wouldn't be altogether surprised though.<br /><br />I think it;s too early to be making predictions about 2015, but it is not unreasonable to conclude that Clegg's public approval rating will impact on the chances of Lib Dem MPs to hold onto their seats. I fear for several very good MPs with tiny majorities.Andrewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02027368242570244912noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3952108899218764633.post-60765955193148145042012-01-08T15:45:44.753+00:002012-01-08T15:45:44.753+00:00Gedguy - agree re The Scotsman. it should also hav...Gedguy - agree re The Scotsman. it should also have been obvious to anyone (including Clegg himself) that however sensible his sentiment, and irrespective of how he might be quoted, his comments would appear like those of yet another English MP telling Scots what to do and think. Very unwise. A Lib Dem friend contacted me via twitter and said that in his view Clegg should, as leader of the federal party, have used the opportunity to advocate further referendum. Well, I'd defend Clegg's right to do that, but I would question the wisdom of it. Just because he can doesn't mean he should...<br /><br />I'm also not too sure the Lib Dems should be pre-empting the findings of the Home Rule Commission. But that's a seperate matter. <br /><br />RevStu - thanks for your contribution. I've looked at the Scotsman piece again and you are indeed correct. I was looking at a seperate section of the quotation and missed/overlooked this. I still don't think he was explicitly stating that people who support independence are extremists, but that there are a number of options on the table and the more "extreme" of these are independence and status quo. All the same, the potential interpretations were pretty clear.<br /><br />As you also rightly point out the referendum question is therefore likely to ask the electorate to decide between what Clegg defines as two "extremes". That certainly makes Willie Rennie's task more difficult. I think Clegg's actually right in identifying the unionism of the status quo as something the party should steer clear of - in my view, it's just another form of nationalism. But use of the word "extremist" in this context was really asking for the kind of response we've seen.<br /><br />I don't acept Clegg's logic that anything other than a broadly centrist "middle way" constitutes am extreme, or that simply tweaking the status quo a little is necessarily the best option. Sometimes gradualist approaches can be very effective; sometimes they can be a block on progress (think House of Lords reform). If you accept Clegg's rather curious logic, when it comes to LGBT rights, the EU, electoral reform, human rights, the Iraq War, the Lib Dems really have been the party advocating extremist views - and that's something I'm proud of!Andrewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02027368242570244912noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3952108899218764633.post-82137945850412905742012-01-08T15:35:15.038+00:002012-01-08T15:35:15.038+00:00Andrew
Of course Clegg thinks you are an extremis...Andrew<br /><br />Of course Clegg thinks you are an extremist, you are still a Lib Dem while he has turned into a tory.<br /><br />Still he will enjoy his seat in the Lords after the next election, while a lot of his MPs will be signing on.Dubbiesidehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14351210091827242674noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3952108899218764633.post-675351925763810832012-01-08T11:43:13.904+00:002012-01-08T11:43:13.904+00:00Clegg wasn't "misreported", and he -...Clegg wasn't "misreported", and he - not the Scotsman - DID use the word "extremists". From paragraph 8 in the Scotsman piece:<br /><br />""All the evidence suggests that is the mainstream of opinion and the extremists are those who either think that we need to yank Scotland out of the United Kingdom tomorrow, or those who say there should be no further change at all,” Mr Clegg said."<br /><br />Interestingly, nobody has made a fuss that he also called supporters of the status quo "extremists". Which, since the Lib Dems are unlikely to have any devo-max proposition on the referendum paper and will therefore be campaigning for the status quo by default, means the Lib Dems are extremists too.RevStuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03915111503712807257noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3952108899218764633.post-42772759567865571582012-01-08T07:36:32.287+00:002012-01-08T07:36:32.287+00:00Interesting article. Personally I would have been ...Interesting article. Personally I would have been more happy with the LibDems if they more of a confederal instead of federal party. It sounds far more democratic to me.<br />What did you expect from such a newspaper? It has been misquoting people for years to enforce their Unionist agenda.<br />It is speeches like that [even if it was misquoted] which gets up the goat of many of the Scottish peoples. We don't like it when 'English' parliamentarians come up here and start telling us what we should do. It's bad enough when we have 'Scots' telling us what we should do. I believe it was PG Wodehouse who said: "It is never difficult to distinguish between a Scotsman with a grievance and a ray of sunshine".Gedguyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18217515188959770657noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3952108899218764633.post-31706189852165882832012-01-08T06:29:16.327+00:002012-01-08T06:29:16.327+00:00Manfarang - yes, Clegg was misreported. I think t...Manfarang - yes, Clegg was misreported. I think the contribution he made was unwise but I can't see why the argument that a pro-independent philosophy is extreme (in the sense of it not being mainstream) should be interpreted by The Scotsman as a suggestion that all of such a view are extremists. But although it was the Scotsman that used the word "extremist", there's no doubt Clegg provided the ammunition and the sentiment. It's no surprise that using words like "extreme" result in this kind of situation. It could all so easily have been avoided.<br /><br />Anonymous - there are many liberally minded people in the SNP; I hope that sometime in the future a Scottish Liberal Party will be a major force and people like yourself will join us. I'm not going to comment on George or Danny, but they don't necessarily represent the views of the party as a whole. I'm sure there are many other Scottish Lib Dems you could easily feel at home with.Andrewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02027368242570244912noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3952108899218764633.post-76514154838564939532012-01-08T00:43:18.641+00:002012-01-08T00:43:18.641+00:00As a member of the SNP I often wonder where I will...As a member of the SNP I often wonder where I will go politically after independence and, as a natural liberal, would probably lean towards a Scottish Liberal party.<br />My concerns, however, are all to do with those, such as George Lyon and Danny Alexander, who are so against independence currently that they invent fictions in a futile attempt to preserve the union. <br />Could I be in a party with people such as these?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3952108899218764633.post-80671442586561418872012-01-08T00:06:08.988+00:002012-01-08T00:06:08.988+00:00"Admittedly it was The Scotsman who used the ..."Admittedly it was The Scotsman who used the word "extremist", rather than Mr Clegg"<br />So Mr Clegg was misreported.Manfaranghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16672026288937285646noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3952108899218764633.post-32148748858217526402012-01-07T23:58:20.129+00:002012-01-07T23:58:20.129+00:00"Every time Clegg talks about the Scottish si..."Every time Clegg talks about the Scottish situation I cringe."<br /><br />Surely the qualification "about the Scottish situation" is a bit redundant there?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3952108899218764633.post-57792486283838740962012-01-07T22:20:19.421+00:002012-01-07T22:20:19.421+00:00We might SOUND like a federal party - and maybe it...We might SOUND like a federal party - and maybe it could be argued that we behave as one, but if our vision for Scotland is federalist rather than devolutionist then we really are out of sync with Scottish public opinion. <br /><br />Then again, surely it is perfectly feasible to be a federal PARTY while advocating a devolutionist political arrangement for the UK? There is no reason why political settlements should necessarily follow the pattern of party structures (they currently don't).Andrewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02027368242570244912noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3952108899218764633.post-57354124836784199822012-01-07T22:03:40.838+00:002012-01-07T22:03:40.838+00:00"We ... commit ourselves to the promotion of ..."We ... commit ourselves to the promotion of a democratic federal framework within which as much power as feasible is exercised by the nations and regions of the United Kingdom."<br />(Preamble to the Federal Party Constitution)<br /><br />We sound like a federalist party to me. And quite right - devolution suggests the centre generously giving up power, and a reserved power is thus one held centrally; in a liberal federal structure, the centre has the powers awarded to it by the constitution, and reserved powers are held at some lower level, which will often be the individual.Free Radicalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00907679130330311104noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3952108899218764633.post-8080236447833385322012-01-07T20:54:46.121+00:002012-01-07T20:54:46.121+00:00Every time Clegg talks about the Scottish situatio...Every time Clegg talks about the Scottish situation I cringe. Sometimes a dignified silence is better than saying what you think...Graeme Cowiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02704481523638679620noreply@blogger.com